I watched and observed how the Black Community responded to the recent exposure of a troubling issue that spans all ethnic groups, all cultures. The sexual exploitation and abuse of children is an ever-present evil we should all take personally. We should never hesitate to educate, converse, speak about childhood abuse. When I speak of children I specifically mean boys and girls under the age of 18. From the Eddie Long scandal to Tyler Perry speaking out about being sexually abused , to Oprah’s special on men being abused as children, to a closer scandal at a church I spent years serving…….. I wonder if this issue at hand is being obviously or ignorantly ignored.  Is this really an issue of sin, immorality vs. morality, evil vs. good, privileged vs. unprivileged, greed vs. generosity  ……….an all attack on the church as many church goers assert?

I have to be honest; I am pretty black and white generally. Once learning that this person that I once followed was suspected to be a predator, I admittedly took a side. I have never been one to care about titles, gifting, status, and position. I had experienced enough in my life to understand that those things did nothing to reveal the soul of man/women. I can simply say I am not a respecter of person, most of my friends can testify to that.  But I can without hesitation say I immediately was on the side of the children once the claims were substantiated. I didn’t care about anything else and quite honestly didn’t think much about the welfare of this sick man who abused his power. I cared about his wife, his children, who are innocent and negatively impacted, the church members who spent years giving and building up this church, but honestly he became irrelevant.  I only wanted to support the welfare of the children/victims. I was once a member and built undoubtedly some of the most significant relationships in my life at this church but that all didn’t matter. I won’t support the abuse of children close up, from a distance or as a bystander. My thoughts are people can find other churches, other jobs, but once you damage a child life that can’t be undone.  It was clear to me what the priority was the welfare of all the children, even those children not directly involved.

So it’s unbelievable and disturbing to see so many people have this seemingly righteous indignation and passion to make excuses, continue to support and justify such horrendous things. We saw how New Birth Members proudly defended there “Bishop’s” character when they never knew who Eddie Long really was. I would venture to say none of them knew him intimately and fully.  But it seemed people immediately gave him the benefit of the doubt which is the first and most tragic reason children don’t come forward when abused. They know that no one will believe them and they fear being ostracized. They know its wrong and want to come forward, run to a safe place, but there is none. They feel helpless.  I wonder if it was their child would some of these people have the same response. How dare Christians be so ignorant to continually trust leaders with no real accountability or transparency? Not only do you not know how they are managing the money that you give, you can no way defend how they truly live. I will never say what someone won’t do; they will make you a liar every time.

What is the real issue? I gamble to make a very feasible argument. “Were Crazy as HELL!!!”  As African American’s we fail to seek mental health treatment. We are depressed, suffer from personality disorders and sometimes psychosis and the like and we never get help. Basically, were nuts. We are mad about the wrong things, don’t practice the principles we preach and protect the wrong people. The fact is that as African-Americans 1 out of 3 people with Mental Health issues seek or receive adequate treatment. Historically African-Americans have mistrusted mental health professionals. Some of that is because of the large disparity in care and not having access to mental health resources.  I believe also that as a community/culture we are more concerned about the stigma of seeking such services and wanting to hide and cover these issues that no culture is exempt from. With all the mega ministries that are supposed to be the Lord’s church, why are there more ministers and yes men/women on staff than psychologist and licensed mental health professionals?  I like many people can think of situations in our families, church, community that called for this kind of help and it was kept quiet and none of the individuals involved received any mental health support or sought treatment. We were more concerned on saving the image of individuals or family names and all to ready to put up a front, façade. We rather be entertained and wowed by man’s gifting than to be transformed and challenged by real leaders. Too concerned about all the wrong things and continually choosing to ignore the most important issues.

How ridiculous is it for a person to consider a matter like the ones we have been faced with, a “Bishop” sexually abusing children and make a comment like “love covers a multitude.” That’s crazy as hell, to use convenient Bible scriptures to justify ignoring the sickness of a person and put more children lives at risk.  Let me highlight some of the disorders that take place in situations like these. Firstly, “Narcissism” is the disorder that allows individual’s to be so self-absorbed, not caring about the welfare of others including these church member’s that ignorantly defend criminal and ghastly acts.  Hurting any and every one with no regard or taking responsibility for their actions. Believing they are above others and above reproach and can have anything they want no matter what the cost. Having the inability to admit and with genuine repentance ask for forgiveness and step down and seek professional help for those clearly irrational and seriously wrong impulses. Narcissism also allows an individual to think they can just throw money at a situation, settle out of court and have no other consequences for criminal behavior. They have no rational instincts to step down, even for an interim to seek help. One last attempt to show a picture of Narcissism is to consider the image of Eddie Long on that Sunday morning after all these allegations were made. Even if all of it was untrue which is very unlikely, he stands with a bad hair piece arrogantly and in grandeur makes the most stupid response ever. And probably thinks it’s really about an attack on the church, about boys trying to take him down and come against him, like he’s the king. They just want his money and insanity makes the people believe that. To read more about Narcissist Personality disorder you can consult the DSM description below.

Another noted disorder that seems to be present in these situations is “Pedophilia”. Rarely are people admitted for this disorder but it is commonly found and usually never detected in time. My personal opinion is in situations like these people close to pedophiles may have seen signs and had suspicions but chose to ignore those signs or just ignorant of them and thus years go by and nothing is known. Below you will find the profile of pedophile. If an adult wishes to spend more time with children than adults or seem more comfortable with children over adults you may want to observe the behavior closely. Don’t be ridiculous and take this out of context, I have chosen a career where I work with children so obviously I am comfortable around children. However, if 5 out of 6 times I chose to engage with children than adults, that may indicate a problem, it may not as well. But as clearly indicated on Oprah show, they groom their victims; often buying the victims gifts, giving money and other things that lure the child. They always want to help children who are “troubled” or may not have two parents. Pedophiles are always seen as upstanding people to those around them. They appear to be trustworthy and gain the trust of the children’s parents.

Another point is that in these situations, people cannot simply spiritualize and conveniently looked through religious lenses. African-Americans have traditionally ran to the church or family to deal with these very serious mental disorders, however to be ignorant and to fight a war with the wrong weapons is a defeat before it started. We have to consider our mental health and identify even those social pathologies that enable us to not only help but perpetuate such a serious issue. If you ignore these issues, it will continue to kill and in these situations I highlighted further endanger the black male in particular. .  Black Mental Health professionals need to become more visible in their churches. This can be done by talking with parents and children and providing counseling and appropriate referrals for more treatment as early as abnormalities are identified. If the right response or the key to healing was only at this altar we erected we surely wouldn’t have such horrible stories of abuse of power and sexual abuse hitting us right in our own backyard, right in our own sacred churches.

Please don’t allow religious rhetoric, false loyalty, and unrighteous efforts to cloud the truth. This behavior is first a sickness and second it is never justified and never should be tolerated. Never should a status, pastor, title, man be placed above the lives of many children. We are responsible to protect and train children up in the way they should go. No adult who wants to touch, manipulate, suck, fondle, kill the faith of a child at any point is trustworthy and incapable of leading and making rational decisions. I can’t even fathom the thought that they can conceive what the will of God is…… For those people who just want to look at this through the lens of God’s word ponder on this, “And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck” (Mark 9:42). No one denies that there is redemptive work in the blood of Christ and forgiveness. Let’s not be irrational though to believe that this behavior don’t disqualify you from this type of office. No one in education, mental health, or helping professions can abuse ethical and legal issues presented in these situations to this proportion and still practice or work in and around children. Their license/credential/privilege to serve is revoked and they are never qualified to operate in those fields again.  Not only are convicted pedophiles sent to jail, their name is on a registry to protect other families from the hell they bring to children. How dare the church try to protect and don’t follow the same ethical guidelines. Quite Insane!

Lastly people don’t understand the significant and tragic effects of childhood abuse. Many sexually abused children act out sexually; the abuse took place in their body so their body is the enemy, they can also become future perpetrators. They develop “Post Traumatic Stress Disorder”, have issues with trust and develop problems with addiction and emotional problems. They have coping problems and are more prone to suicidal ideation. One of the most compounded problems can be the family/loved ones response to the abused child. If they make the child feel guilty or believe the perpetrators denial this can have a profoundly devastating effect.  As a responsible citizen/parent/Christian/professional you should ALWAYS report a sexual abuse claim to proper authorities.  I am not saying you should always believe the claim but it’s your responsibility to take it seriously. Never take it upon yourself to determine if the child is lying. It is not your place unless you work for Child Protective Services and is assigned to be the investigator. As parents understand that most children WILL NOT tell. So watch for signs, don’t trust many people to keep your children overnight or be with them unsupervised. Don’t trust just because someone seems “trustworthy” or have titles. It can take years for your child to come forward. It kills the spirit of children…………………………..

To see statistics and more info about sexual abuse http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/stats.htm.

Narcissistic DSM IV Criteria

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:(1)  has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)(2)  is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love(3)  believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)  (4)  requires excessive admiration(5)  has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations(6)  is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends(7)  lacks empathy:  is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others(8)  is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her(9)  shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Retrieved on March 15, 2011 from http://www.mental-health-today.com/narcissistic/dsm.htm.

General Characteristics of Pedophile:

Popular with both children and adults.Appears to be trustworthy and respectable. Has good standing in the community.Prefers the company of children. Feels more comfortable with children than adults. Is mainly attracted to prepubescent boys and girls. Can be heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.”Grooms” children with quality time, video games, parties, candy, toys, gifts, money.Singles out children who seem troubled and in need of attention or affection.Often dates or marries women with children that are the age of his preferred victims.Rarely forces or coerces a child into sexual contact. Usually through trust and friendship. Physical contact is gradual, from touching, to picking up, to holding on lap, to kissing, etc.Derives gratification in a number of ways. For some, looking is enough. For others, taking pictures or watching children undress is enough. Still others require more contact.Finds different ways and places to be alone with children. Are primarily (but not always) male, masculine, better-educated, more religious than average, in their thirties, and choose jobs allowing them greater access to children.Are usually family men, have no criminal record, and deny that they abuse children, even after caught, convicted, incarcerated, and court-ordered into a sex offender program. The marriage is often troubled by sexual dysfunction, and serves as a smokescreen for the pedophile’s true preferences and practices. Are often, but not always, themselves victims of some form of childhood sexual abuse. Even if the pedophile has no children, his home is usually child-friendly, with toys, books, video games, computers, bikes, swing sets, skateboards, rec room, pool, snacks – things to attract children to his home and keep them coming back. Usually the items reflect the preferred age of his victims. A female pedophile usually abuses a child when partnered with an adult male pedophile, and is often herself a victim of chronic sexual abuse. A pedophile can act independently, or be involved in an organized ring, including the Internet, NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association), and other pro-pedophilia groups. Some pedophiles recognize that their behavior is criminal, immoral, and unacceptable by society, and operate in secrecy. Some are quite open and militant about their practices and advocate the normalization of pedophilia under the guise of freedom of speech and press, and uses innocuous language like “intergenerational intimacy. “Pedo means “child” in Greek. Phile is a derivative of Greek, Latin, and French, meaning “love.”The Exclusive type of pedophile is attracted to children only. The Non-Exclusive is attracted to both children and adults. A pedophile will not stop on his own, and will not turn himself in, because he does not take responsibility for his behavior and denies that he’s doing anything harmful. He will abuse until he’s caught. A child not always recognizes when he or she is being abused, manipulated, or groomed by a pedophile. Unless the pedophile is a sexual sadist, he does not have to threaten a child into silence. The trust, gifts, secrecy, and “relationship” are enough. In some cases, the abuser will coerce the child into silence by saying that if anyone finds out, he would go to jail, or the child would, and maybe the child’s parents. In other cases, threats to harm the child, pets, and family are used.Pedophiles can be “treated” but never cured, because their sexual preference has always been, and always will be, children. Their urges will always be present. Therefore, treatment focuses on changing, curbing, or re-directing the acting-out behaviors of pedophiles. Knowing the profile of a pedophile, does this mean that the little league coach who has a great rapport with kids and treats them to pizza at his house is suspect? Or that the teacher who throws pool parties is? Of course not. The majority of people who like and work with children are not pedophiles. It does mean that we should be observant of all the adults in our children’s lives, whether they wear a white collar, a blue collar, or a clerical collar.

Retrieved on March 15, 2011 from http://www.mental-health-matters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=519.

T. Sharee

You can watch find the full video at http://www.abcnews.com/nightline

Edge: Let’s start with you telling our readers your church demographics.

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: Victory has approximately three thousand members, we draw really from all across the metro Atlanta area and of course we have members in this immediate area. We have a relatively young congregation the median age is about 37-38, many young families, and a lot of small children, lots of first time home buyers or in the process of trying to qualify to buy a home.

Edge: Is Victory congregation primarily African American?

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: Yes, I’m sure about 97 % African American we have a sprinkling that are Hispanic and a few white members.

Edge: Now with the Hispanic population growing in this area of Stone Mountain. Are you seeing more Hispanics growth within your church? 

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: We have not seen a significant growth but there are some Hispanic members that attend. I’ve been interested in actually trying to start a Hispanic congregation right here on campus that could be conducted in Spanish for Spanish speaking persons, so were in the process of trying to explore that.

Edge: Now in general how well has the black church done in trying to include the Hispanic population?

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: Well I think the language is the main barrier, once you get beyond that I don’t think there is much of a barrier or divide. Worship is public but also personal. So it’s good if your native language is Spanish and or you speak Spanish at home that you come to a worship service or read the bible in Spanish.  So for us I think that is the main barrier because I don’t speak Spanish, so every Hispanic person that come would have to be bi-lingual and probably most are but in worship, it would be good if it can be in your native tongue. So that’s probably why we don’t attract more. When we had our school open, Victory Christian Academy we had a Hispanic on staff she was bilingual, spoke English and Spanish fluently, her presence alone attracted Hispanic students to the school. We don’t have a Spanish speaking person on the church staff so we haven’t had the same kind of attraction.

Edge: Does the church need to change ministry because of the economy? How should the church deal with the issues in the economy?  

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: Well I think number one, this whole prosperity gospel is just so detrimental. There was a whole movement and it’s probably still alive where people began to judge their blessings from God based on their material possessions.  Life consists of much more than the amount of things we possess.  I think there is a scripture that says, life does not exist in the abundance of things. So I think that whole prosperity gospel needed to be revamped and rethought. I never been a proponent of it but I know many persons have. We have to teach people that it’s not in the abundance of things that you have but being grateful for what you have. It’s making great use of what you have. It’s not just saying Lord bless me, its Lord bless me so I can be a blessing to somebody else. So I ask God to increase Victory. That’s a good prayer. I mean that’s the prayer of Jabez, Lord Grant me increase, but only so we can do more to serve others. Never to make the church or the church members or myself a conduit with reserve of selfishness and arrogance and egotism, to say look what we have, look what God has given us. I think God wants to channel blessings through us, that’s why God gives blessings to us, so we can pass the blessings along. My prayer is that Victory in this crisis time will be supported by the people who can and will. That way we can reach out and support persons who have less. We are getting many more and more calls of persons who just can’t pay rent, or mortgage and of course were limited in what we can do because we have to pay a mortgage but I found out that when people call, you can pray with them but you have to offer them some kind of material: a food box, some Marta tokens, a lot of people don’t have transportation, some money to buy a coat for a child etc. The needs are up and the resources are down. It’s unfortunate that as the need for those types of services has increased the resources have decreased because it’s hard for everybody. We have to pull from our resources. We have a clothing bank here and a food bank so I tell people even if we are not in the position to give you a couple hundred dollars, we can say at least you won’t go hungry. Or at least you won’t be outside with no clothes or coat. Were going make sure of that because we have those things. Beyond that unfortunately by the time someone calls us for rent or mortgage assistance they are like 3 or 4 months behind and then all of a sudden they owe about 3500, we are just not in a position to do that. We do the best we can and at least they have food and clothing and try to find somewhere if they are outside or put them up in a hotel for a few days while they try to figure something out.

Edge: Do you think the Black church has lost some if its relevance and influence in society?

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: Well I think that that 30, 40 to fifty years ago the church was so much the center of community in the black community, I mean let’s face it we didn’t have that many other options. You know you went to church and school and if you were grown enough you might go to the juke-joint on the weekends but the church was the center. Now I just think there is such a diversity of things that claim people’s attention. There are fraternities, sororities, my gym membership, my spa treatment, my massage, you know when I was growing up it was basically school and church. Well you know now its ballet, cheer-leading squad, football camp, basketball camp, a lot of time parents say the teens don’t have time to come to church like we use to three of four times a week. You get them in Sunday and you pretty much do what you need to do. Then transportation for many people is a key with gasoline prices going up and down so there parents may not be in position to transport them back and forth. So there are a lot of other things that go on that I think impact the fact that people have found other outlets for their social engagement, other than the church that use to be more central. Now that’s not to say the church has less of a role, it just means we have to adapt to the changing times. For us (Victory Church) what that means is instead of planning a lot of stuff during the week, where people either don’t have the time or the funds to get here, we try to make it convenient and plan on Sunday and do as much as we can while people are here or Wed, we got to try to plan stuff around peoples schedules, that’s a big thing. I think in terms of a gathering place where everybody’s welcome and can come no matter what you’re going through, that’s free and you get spiritual guidance and support. There are a lot of places you can go but there are not many places you can go and get spiritual nurturing, prayer, somebody to share hope with you and encourage you. There are not many places like that. I think the church is going to continue to play a vital role, whether or not it’s going to be as central depends but it’s always going be vital. I think there will always be a need for a community of believers, a community of faith. I don’t think any other outlets will ever take the place of this community. A place you can come to be spiritually nurtured and edified. That’s the missing link in our lives, that spiritual connection. You know we get intellectual, social, political and at Victory what we have to do is try to tie them all in and show people the spiritual significance of everything else.

Edge:  For those readers who may have grew up in church and are discouraged or feel as though church has become more of the mundane, what would you say to them?

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: I think a lot of boredom with church probably has to do with certain frustrations. It’s kind of like a good song, no matter how many times you hear it; you always seem to get a sense of enjoyment from it. The bible is only 66 books, you could say, well “I read it all so it boring to me,” but the nature of church, the nature of the living word, no matter how many times you read the same text, it means something more to you because you are in a different stage in life. So I guess I would challenge a person who is bored with church. I think that is an indication that a person has reached a kind of rut, a monotony of his or her own life because how many times do you get tired of someone that you love, say I love you?  Do you say, “well you said that to me last year?” That’s ridiculous, no matter how many times they say I love you, it means something to you and you want to hear it over and over again. And I think too, people say church is boring because they come to be a spectator, you are coming to say entertain me, excite and please me. That’s the wrong attitude, you come to church just to see how the preacher is going make me feel, or how the choir is going move me today. You come to church to say, what way can I express my gratitude to God and what can I give back in terms of my service and sacrifice to express to God how much I love him. How can you get bored expressing your love and gratitude to God? God never gets bored expressing his love and gratitude towards us.

Edge: We know there is no perfect church but Jesus said he is coming back for his perfect church, is it the church responsibility to strive to be perfect or is it okay to rest in philosophy that there is no perfect church?

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: I think perfection is always the goal, but perfection not in terms of being sinless because none of us are sinless but perfect in terms of being forgiven and walking in the grace, forgiveness and mercy of God. I think it’s a better word for it, its called sanctification which means we are being constantly molded into the image of Christ and that’s a lifelong process. So anybody who thinks they have already arrived, I say they do better than Apostle Paul because he said, “I press toward the mark,” he said “I die daily,” so every day is a faith walk, every day there is a moving forth in the spirit and being taught and understand more in your walk with God. It’s a constant journey and everybody is at different places on the journey. We don’t all have to be at the same place on the journey; we just need to be on the journey.  So I think the church is a place to help people work out their soul salvation. I often say that the church is not haven for the sanctified and perfect, it’s a hospital and we are trying get people healed.

Edge: How should the church respond to members who fall from grace?  Do you think people should be disqualified for ministry based on sin, specifically with how Ted Haggard’s church responded to his falling? How should the church deal with sin?

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: The Christ like way would be to forgive and in some cases and sometimes forgiveness has to be accompanied with a process that can restore, that can be counseling, therapy, prayer, or support group. I tell the officers who handle money that if you steal from the church we will forgive you, but we will also prosecute you because I think you need the a little jail time to think about what you done. Now, that don’t mean I won’t forgive you but we will prosecute and if you are caught stealing; you will not be given the responsibility in that capacity again because obviously that is something you cannot handle. Some would say, “well do that mean forever?” Well I can’t say forever but in the immediate foreseeable future you won’t have the opportunity to do that because you violated the trust. We need to continue to love people and I think the church needs to be a place where we never try to embarrass, humiliate, or demean. Love does not rejoice in evil. Love rejoices in the truth. Love hopes all things, and believes all things according to 1st Corinthians 13 and we would forgive, pray, hope for the best and depending on the violation, I would recommend either some counseling or some period of reflection. It’s not to say just because you forgive someone they have to be immediately restored to a position.

Edge: There have been a few churches in Atlanta that have started and are “radically inclusive.”  Specifically for churches that have started that embraces and support homosexuality, how should churches that don’t believe or agree with these churches respond to these churches.

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: I believe that we have to understand there are different gifts and different interpretations of scripture and one church may come away or one pastor may come away from a text understanding different from another person. I think that is okay, I think there is room for diversity in the body of believers. What should unite us is our common faith in the saving grace of Jesus of Christ.  Jesus said whosoever will, may come. He didn’t qualify it to say, if you’re straight or gay or if you’re male or female, black or white, he said whosoever will, come. I don’t think that anybody in the church is in any position to judge another person’s salvation or experience with God. We may not understand everything, but we don’t have to understand everything.    We need to be working on our own soul salvation and praying for others as they go. I use to think that yeah, you can be gay in church but you have to keep that hidden in closet and God will forgive you.  Then I had a gay person to say, “well who are you are you to judge my salvation.”  And it’s true, I can’t judge anybody’s salvation, that’s not for me to do. I’m to preach God’s love with whatever walk you are in, you should obey God and do the best you can and allow the spirit of God to work in you to transform you.  I’m in no position to say a person who is gay is not saved just because there gay. As a matter of fact, I think there’s a lot of hypocrisy because what I hear a lot of my colleagues in the ministry say is, a person may feel or believe they are gay but they need to keep that in the closet, keep that on the down-low because what the church requires is that they just get married and have children. Well, I’m like that’s ridiculous because now you have a whole lot of lives messed up. We teach people to live lies of hypocrisy, people get married and they don’t really want to get married, they have the wife and boyfriend on the side or husband and girlfriend on the side and it’s a mess in the name of God. That is so detrimental, so un-Christ like. I think it’s better for people to be honest, to be who they are. That’s not to say that a gay person cannot sin but a heterosexual can sin to. We need to all just try to be true to God, be true to the person you love and I am so grateful that God is the ultimate judge and I believe God’s love is greater than any laws that people will lift up from the bible. Well the bible also said eating spare ribs was an abomination, but people haven’t stopped eating them. 

Edge: Earlier you talked about how people have more outlets than church for their social, political and intellectual needs compared to back in the day. How can the church make their ministry relevant while staying biblical?

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: I think our mandate is to serve God by serving others. I think that any church would need to look at its current congregation and look at its community and see where the needs are. They jump out at you.  I don’t even have to think deeply, we have such a need in this community for youth services, to give young people who parents work downtown or somewhere far out, somewhere to go. And we don’t have the resources now but I am working on it. I want to provide an after school program, where young people can come get homework assistance, reading, math and science tutorial and computer lab.  The parents will know they are in a safe place; they are being supervised and given something to eat until their parents get home. I believe that is such a need certainly on weekdays but also on weekends.  I see the young people walking down the streets and sometimes just hanging out here on campus with nowhere to go.  So the need for youth services is really great, also senior care. We have a lot of seniors that are home during the day, I wish we had the resources in place to really have, I know we have over at the Lou Walker center but something in this area where seniors can come and learn basic computer skills and go on some mini field trips and can get out and enjoy themselves. Those are just two immediate needs and I’m sure there are many others. I think with any church, that’s how you stay relevant because people say, this church is meeting a need in my life, now my mother has somewhere to go, she don’t have to be home all day. Now I know that when my son gets home from school he’s not just running around until 8 o’clock. That’s how a church stays relevant.

Edge: So I am hearing you say, that church can stay relevant by meeting the needs of its immediate community?

 Dr. Kenneth Samuel: That’s right. And you don’t have to look far, the people will tell you what they need in the community, you just have to talk to them.

Edge: It kind of seems like when churches have some level of success or get a big building or reach mega status, their immediate community doesn’t feel comfortable or even sometimes welcome to go into the church.  Or that church is not really doing anything for the immediate community.

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: Well it’s really a catch 22 because a church can become so mega that it has such an overhead in terms of just maintaining the institution that it doesn’t have that many resources to serve people.  I think Victory got in that position, I’m working now to reverse that so we can spend less in just maintaining the physical plant and put more into serving because that’s what God called us to do. Christ said serve, of course we need a place and resources to do that but I think when you get top heavy and so much of everything is going to be “mega,” and you have a mega church but mini-mission that becomes very dangerous and a lot of churches find themselves in that position and I think we have to start reversing that and let’s say, “let’s turn this around”. Let’s have a mega-mission and make sure the emphasis is on how we reach out to people.  And by the way, just not reaching out to other Christians and people who look like us.

Edge: So basically ministry is not just going out and saying you need to be saved, but actually meeting the needs of the people?

Dr. Kenneth Samuel: Yes, meeting the needs of the people. That’s what Jesus did, I challenge anyone to tell me where in the bible did Jesus go up to somebody and say you, young lady, young man you need to be saved.   Every time he met people he met them at their point of need. The woman at the well, you need water? Let’s talk about water. Blind Barnabas your blind, let’s talk about sight. Everywhere he met people, his own disciples, okay you’re fishing, let’s talk about being fishers of men and women.  He met them at their point of need and when you meet people at their point of need then they know you not trying game them or trying to trick them. You engage them and then have an opportunity to share about what’s motivating you to do what you do. Then you can say to them, not only do you need sight, (physical) need but you need spiritual sight.  Not only do you need water but you need living water but were going start with your immediate needs.

 

Last month we started a discussion on the black church relevance in today’s society. Like in our own lives we strive to be better people, shouldn’t the church institution also strive to improve?  Yes the church is run by people and you won’t find a perfect church but it is the responsibility of any institution especially one who declare God’s name and authority, to work towards a more perfect church. Paul addressed issues with the church and encouraged and called them to higher living. Jesus is coming for his perfect church the bible says (2 Pet 3:4). Now we understand the “church” is not a building; we are the church, you who have accepted Jesus. As long as we are on the earth we have the awesome responsibility with our human tendencies, issues and imperfections to work to get better. How many people pray, Lord make me a better person?  If you go to church every Sunday, sing in the choir, shout, serve on the deacon board or nurse’s ministry and your life is not improving or you’re not growing in your spiritual life,” what’s the use?” 
True worship is not just what happens on Sunday, it’s a lifestyle of worship.  Likewise if the ministry is not growing and providing ministry that meet the needs of its community, that ministry’s purpose is not being fulfilled. I don’t mean growing in numbers because that is not an indication that a church is being effective. 

In the book “Quitting Church” by Julia Duin, she asserts that studies show 60-80 percent of Americans are not attending a church. This includes Christians that have left the church. Many churches have a revolving door; people are coming down the aisle every Sunday but they never get active or stay very long.  I recently had to check myself because I had become a “Sunday saint” not doing any evangelism.  I saw how my sister’s church, (which is a small church) stay focused on outreach and evangelism as well as ministry in the house. It’s amazing how the members are on fire and go out. They not only share their faith but show God’s love in the community.  They are continuously going out in the community helping people. Here I was at this big church (and yes, I was serving on the praise team/choir) but it had been a few years since I had been involved with any of the ministries in my church that actually did community outreach. I do believe that individuals should serve in their church but there is a problem when we are so willing to serve the churches needs, pastors’ needs, build big buildings, and do nothing to impact our communities. How many people that live near your church really feel like they can come to the church for help, prayer, and deliverance? 

I believe part of the reason the church has lost some of its relevance is because instead of trying to build God’s church many people are interested in building “their ministry.”  They are interested in having a place to feed their egos or just want to get the material blessings of God. So is it possible that we are not relevant because we have a self centered philosphy?  Are we merely coming to church every Sunday and preach and sing to ourselves?  And is our impact  minimal because we are not really meeting the needs of the people?

I’m a little nervous about the exercise part, I haven’t been in a real training program since I was 23. I was running, doing strength training and was very fit but that was over 10 years ago. My biggest challenge will be staying focused; not falling off the wagon and staying on the ground. There has been many times I started a nutritional plan and because I messed up once, I forfeited the whole thing. What a DECEPTION. I failed because I gave up, not because I made a mistake.

So if you want to join me or just follow my progress (cause it’s going be exceptional), I look forward to letting my experience inspire you to consider your health and become healthier individuals.

T. Sharee

Edge: Generally speaking what is the vision of The Shepherds Table?

Pastor Elliot: That is a great question and an awesome place to start…The Shepherd’s Table Covenant Church exists solely to be a Spirit filled, Christ centered liberating place of worship for all people, from all walks of life and all expression of life.  We do this by sharing God’s message of Hope, Heaven and Healing through Jesus Christ.

Edge: Were you commissioned to start this church or ordained?

Pastor Elliot: Commissioned? If you mean commissioned as in the sense of being sent out by a larger church or denomination/organization, No.  This was something that God placed on my heart many years ago even as a teenager.  So through my years of study, schooling and service in the local church and to God I was able to discern the season in my life to be right for what God was saying to do.  As a result of this there was the birthing of The Shepherd’s Table Covenant Church. 

Edge: Who covers you? Do you have a mentor or father in the ministry?

Pastor Elliot: As a church we are an independent worshipping congregation.  Personally, I have a mentor and spiritual Father, who resides and pastors out of Chicago, IL. 

Edge: What is a radically inclusive church? What does that mean?

Pastor Elliot: A radically inclusive church would draw its philosophy from the thought of broadening the circle that covers us presently as Christians.  This is to encompass more than who we deem as the accepted individuals that are present in the church.  However, we at our church actually prefer the term INTENTIONALLY INCLUSIVE. Now what that means to us is, The Shepherd’s Table Covenant Church’s goal is to create a place where all people may feel free to worship, serve, and grow spiritually – without regard to race, ethnicity, social class, age, gender or affectional orientation. We actually seek to create a safe-sacred space for all people to flourish – persons in recovery, the recently incarcerated, the economically disenfranchised, and persons infected and affected by HIV/AIDS and their allies. We seek to proclaim the same message proclaimed on the day of Pentecost;    And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord [Jesus] shall be saved. Acts 2:21KJV and that God continues to pour out God’s spirit upon all people.

Edge: Do you feel that part of the reason you started the church was to feel accepted or because of church hurt?

Pastor Elliot: Wow! You would not believe how many people have asked that question or have had that thought in the back of their minds.  Without reservation, this was not the reason for our church’s birth.  On October 19, 2008 The Shepherd’s Table Covenant Church officially opened its doors.  “Putting truth back into ministry” was the clarion call of the Lord that compelled us to move for into what God had been calling for us to do from our youth. It is my personal belief that God strategically positions individuals to hear and answer the call that goes out over the earth to become the living Gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ.  As those of us who answer God’s call become the living, tangible expressions of God’s Grace and Love, the scripture is fulfilled when Jesus says “And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw EVERYONE to myself.” John 12:32.  Truth of the matter is we’re merely doing what God called us and so many others to do many centuries ago.

Now as for being accepted… In the 21^st century “acceptance” in church and with or by church folk means so many different things to so many different individuals.   Allow me to say this, as we look at the world around us, we can see that there are ills in every community; political unrest, socioeconomic devastation, war, famine and disease.  With all this, there are those in the “church world” who still stands on the side lines debating “what is clean and what is unclean?” and “who are the rejected and who are the accepted?”  Today, God has not called for a debate but rather God has summonsed this generation of believers to build bridges, to make up the hedge and to prepare the place where God’s love can be shown to all people. 

 Edge: You grew up COGIC and being that I did too, I know that these beliefs are completely different and most would not accept this view, how do you grapple with that tension.

Pastor Elliot: Actually, at the foundation of my faith there is nothing that is different about the beliefs that I embraced as a child growing up in The Church of God In Christ.  Now what I would say is that through life’s journey and a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ my faith has been afforded the opportunity to grow and develop. Through this growth and my relationship with the Father, I can say that I understand more and have experienced more of the extravagant grace of God. You know that stuff we from the old school would call Amazing Grace.  The Hymnologist really did have it right when he said, “it saved a wretch like me…” So to speak of grappling, I would rather call that period of my life growing pains.  This was a direct result of my own disbelief that God loved me and wanted me… So much that before I was even conscience of this fundamental truth, Christ died for me and then said that I was accepted in the beloved.

Edge: Did you change your mind or did you always disagree with the church in regards to homosexuality being a sin?

Pastor Elliot: My position is the result of my growth and evolution along my spiritual journey. Having had the opportunity to study academically as well as in church settings, this has allowed me to view the subject matter at hand through different lenses.  So with that I think a better question is why has the church chosen to marginalize individuals that are homosexual?

Edge: Can we both agree that the word is very clear that marriage is between a woman and a man? Does your church believe in same-sex marriage?

Pastor Elliot: We can both agree that there are no same-sex marriages that appear in our canonized text of scripture.  However, this lack of depiction, doesn’t inherently mean that such is sinful or against God.  Also, this does not mean that at lack of its appearance in scripture, indicates the lack of value and worth. Our understanding of marriage has taken many forms and been the subject of much debate throughout our religious and social history: for instance a union between one man and one woman as husband and wife is a monogamous heterosexual marriage; polygamy – in which a person takes more than one spouse – which includes, polygamy in which a man takes more than one wife, and polyandry in which a woman takes more than one husband have been common in some societies. There has also been debate surrounding the age of consent to marry and regarding marriage in the United States, marriage between different ethnic groups.

Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967), was a landmark civil rights case in which the United States Supreme Court declared Virginia‘s anti-miscegenation statute, the “Racial Integrity Act of 1924“, unconstitutional, thereby overturning Pace v. Alabama (1883) and ending all race-based legal restrictions on marriage in the United States.

Pastor Elliot: Recently, some jurisdictions and denominations have begun to recognize same-sex marriage, uniting people of the same sex. We at the Shepherd’s Table Covenant Church believe that our God is absolute love.  Therefore we do honor, affirm and celebrate the covenants that are between individual of the same gender, because one of the most significant ways to demonstrate ones love for another person is to enter into covenant/marriage with that individual. So why should this expression of love be afforded to some and withheld from others solely based on their affectional orientation?

Edge: What do you want the readers to know about this type of church? What do they have incorrect perceptions about?

Pastor Elliot: Well, what I would like your readers to know about US at the Shepherd’s Table Covenant Church is that we are a church for all people.  We’re a Christian body of baptized believers. We believe whole-heartedly in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on Calvary’s Cross and through this work, salvation is available for all humankind. Our church fully embraces the Pentecostal experience and the operation of spiritual gifts as a part of the life of every believer. We are a socially conscience church, and believe that the call of humankind is to not only serve the Lord in spirit and truth but we further believe that we are called, commissioned and committed to serve the whole humanity, showing the intentionally inclusive love of God through Jesus Christ. In this we recognize that our distinction in the Kingdom is to minister to the whole person; body, soul and spirit.

Edge: Your church is relatively new, what do you believe are key elements for longevity?

Pastor Elliot: The one key element to the longevity of our church is Christ as our foundation.

Edge: Can you respect others who assert their belief that homosexuality is a sin and not God’s plan even though you don’t agree?

Pastor Elliot: Just as there are denominations that differ fundamentally in their views regarding baptism, speaking in tongues, the ordination of women and the participation in Holy Communion, I feel that there is still a place at the table of the Lord for everyone that names the name of Christ.  Therefore we can ultimately agree to disagree.

Edge: What kind of response have you received from local pastors in starting a church that embraces homosexuality?

Pastor Elliot: Actually that’s kind of funny…  I think that people fail to remember that being Intentionally Inclusive as a church (as we are) means more than just the fact that we accept, embrace and affirm individuals that are same gender loving.  Honestly, the presence of gay and lesbian people has always been in church.  Hiding? Yes. In the Closet? Yes.  Afraid of the ostracizing of the preacher, who often times didn’t mind their presence as long as they were on the organ or piano or in the choir or stayed in their place. The truth of this matter is a much larger conversation is to be had that surrounds the acceptance of this one marginalize group.  The conversation to be had is why are they not embraced everywhere? However, the church as a whole would rather continue to live out a lie in from of her parishioners. Making the church of the Lord Jesus Christ an elitist’s social club having privileges for its members and rights of passage for it’s faithful seekers. This is not the will of God! Now, some of the pastors that I run into locally, either at churches or musical programs or most recently at the local Christian bookstores, who have visited our website (in secret) or who may know me from other churches that I may have served at here in the Atlanta Metro area, there’s simply a myriad of responses.  Some never mention that they have questions.  I welcome intelligent forums and scholarly discourse.  While others say how proud of me they are for stepping out and doing the work of the Lord. Then immediately follow up with “Doc I don’t think I could ever be that brave and do what you’ve done.”  One local pastor had gone so far as to say that everyone is welcomed at his church (this was my first problem) but they can’t bring their **expletive** with them… I’m sure you can fill in the blank… This was problem 2,3,4,5 and 6! Now on the other hand I have reached out to several individuals including my former bishop and pastor for guidance seeing that I had served there and felt that he would be a father of sorts even if we didn’t agree on everything.  I felt his fathering and mentoring would be advantageous for us as a new church. Unfortunately, there has been no response or reply from his office nor from him personally. So with this we forge forward, ever listening to the voice of God and looking for the opportunity to minister Christ to everyone.… 

*Edge will note there were a few questions asked that Pastor Elliot did not answer thinking they would be a point of “contention”. The following questions were asked. Do you believe homosexuality is a sin? Do you have any Biblical references for your belief? How would you interpret Romans 1:20-32?

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